Phoenix, Arizona

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Imagine with me for a second here and please be opened minded while reading and not think that every word you are reading you disagree with. what if i could offer you a box, yes that is right a box and inside of this box you stuff money into it until it is full. after it is full the money grows as well as the box, they both continue to grow until you decide yourself when to take the money out.

Let’s say for example at age 50 your good friend calls you and tells you that he recently spoke with an investor that gave him some good advice. the advice was to purchase a piece of property. the investor tells him that this piece of property should double within 5 years and it would be a great investment. however your friend cannot afford it nor get the loan for the full amount of $500,000. so he tells you about this and he feels the only way this will work is that you split this piece of property with him, $250,000 each. (for all of you reading this so far, stay with me)

think about this with me. where are you going to get your $250,000 from to purchase half of this piece of property? If i had to guess you probably don’t have it sitting in your checking account. You can’t get it from your IRA, Roth, 401(k), or any other type of retirement plan. Ah, remember that box you had that you stuffed money inside for period of time, you can get it from there, not to mention no taxes or penalties. You can take it out( while still continuing to grow) oh, and after your money doubles from the property you can put it back in.

this box allows you lots of flexibility, choices, and options in a lifetime. Here me on this, there is only 3 things that could every happen to you in a lifetime. 1) you live a long healthy life 2) you pass away to soon 3) you become sick or have an accident and can no longer work. Remember the box that’s working for us? 1)If you live a long healthy life you’re saving money ( and getting a compounding 7.5% ROR each year-after taxes) 2) if you pass away too soon this box makes sure you’re family is financially prepared to live without you, not emotionally but financially. 3) if you become sick or have an accident when everything else stops for you, i.e…you can no longer fund your 401 (k), ira, roth, or whichever other plan you have because you are not working and i hope you own disability insurance but that would not be to provide for a retirement plan, that would be to keep you and your family above water, so when all of your finances come to a halt after a disability, remember that box? It self completes and the box funds itself after a disability and continues to put the same amount of $ into it that you were. wow! that’s a product that will take care of anything i will ever need financially. live, die, become disabled.

the story is permanent life insurance, it’s a phenomenal tool if you understand how it works, here me again, if you understand how it works. This is not short term dollars that is what mutual funds are for, this is for long range dollars.

Last thing, for all of you “buy term and invest the difference” people: The experts will tell you if you take 2 married couples today under the age of 60 that do not smoke or use tobacco, the average age of the second person to die is 92, people are living longer today than 20 years ago. most of the time it is the female that lives longer. “buy term and invest the difference” only works if you know for sure you are going to pass away early. Because if the guy makes it to 70+ yrs. his term has probably run out. here is the key: he cannot spend all of his retirement money from 401k, ira, or whichever because he has to leave his wife money to live off of for many years after he is gone because he no longer has life insurance, his term expired and is in no shape to buy more term because his health is obviously not what it was when he purchased his 30 level term at age 40. If he could purchase it the cost would be entirely too excessive.


While Buy Term invest the difference is great, but it has several flaws. What happens if you outlive the term? What is the cost of insurance after the term period? Can the advisor put in writing the future gains of a mutual fund? If an Advisor says he can GUARANTEE future returns on a mutual fund, then run away! What happens if I want to add MORE money to my IRA on an annual basis? How much do I need to have at retirement? When will I run out of retirement money? Will my 401k/IRA contributions be enough to get me to the goal? How about my estate tax, how much will go to the IRS? Cash value insurance can answer these questions with Authority in spades. Buy Term Invest the difference crusaders can’t answer these questions with any authority because they only look at on small aspect of the huge financial planning picture: the cost of insurance. They miss the lost opportunity cost of Triple compounding, Tax-Free Income, Estate Taxes, Increased Premium rates AFTER the Term period on Term Insurance, and the instability and inherent risk of Investing in Mutual Funds. They get you focused on the Insurance Agent’s “GREED” instead of focusing on the greed of the IRS, Brokerage Houses, and the people who promote these simpleton concepts. Buy Term invest the difference crusade was excellent in the 70s, but it is over. There are TOO many excellent products and concepts to locked into just this ONE financial plan. Buy Term invest the difference is a EXCELLENT starting point, but I would not want to finish there.

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This whole thing is retarded


For a minute that "Sam" is a financial planner, you're a fool.


Ok, here's the facts!! I sell both term and cash value life insurance depending on what my clients goals are.

I would say that 90-98% of the people out there will be better off buying low cost term insurance and funding a Roth IRA with mutual funds using proper asset allocation. A lot of fellow CFP's tend to sell cash value insurance due to the large premiums which in turn means huge commission. Let's say I am sitting down with a 30 year old, who has 250,000 of debt, earns $60,000 per year, married, 2 kids. A 1 million dollar 30 year level term policy for about $105 per month or a $150,000 VUL for the same cost.

If he dies over the next 5, 10, 15, 20 years, which policy would benefit his family more??? Sending his wife a check for a million or 150,000.??? A lot of CFP's also say a cash value policy is to protect from estate taxes. Gimme a break, I meet with families everyday and less than 2% of the families will ever have a big enough estate to even have to worry about taxes.

Mr or Mrs cash value agent, do you know how much wealth may be passed to the estate with out incurring taxes???

How many families are retiring millionaire's?? As long as someone invests the savings will do just fine


I was part of Primerica from 1998-2006 and I really enjoyed working with Primerica and I was able to help alot of my friends and family get a financial gameplan in writing, help them set goals for their future and teach them basic financial concepts that they would have never learned without me being part of the company. As for me, I simply became lazy and ran out of people to see.

I was not recruiting new people, which was my fault. I have nothing bad to say about Primerica, they provide a positive environment, great leadership, people who really care about others, and a great opportunity.

You just have to work hard, nothing about it is easy, but it should not be since the rewards are so great. Good luck to all of you who are in Primerica or if you are thinking of joining the company, go for it!!


The previous poster made some fundamental mistakes describing certain aspects, or simply didn't understand how they worked.

My guess is this is a Primerica ghost writer. No one who left Primerica and has worked elsewhere would praise Primerica products.


Here's the scoop. I used to sell cash value life insurance for a company very well known in the industry.

I wasn't always convinced I was doing the right thing 100% of the time. We used to have meetings every Monday morning and my manager would teach us verbage to use to get people to spend as much as possible on life insurance, even if they could not afford it. The fact is buying term life insurance is the most cost effective way to protect your family with the most coverage for least money. Cash value is more expensive, true.

I've done the research and it has been proven that cash value insurance is a mediocre investment and investing outside of insurance has always provided superior returns and less costly. The person describing the VUL here has some good points, but also leaves out many facts. VUL's are expensive, and the insurance cost does go up each year. The net returns of the investment portion do go down due to costs.

And down markets do affect your insurance. I actually had clients lose their policies because of poor market performance and under funding the policy, it was just too expensive. Life insurance is complicated but yet simple. By the way, I used to hate people who sold for Primerica, they replaced alot of policies I wrote.

I must say though, Primerica is a great company, who does right for average ordinary people( i hate to admit) but it is hard to argue with their philosophy for the majority of people. I loved the commission VUL's paid me, but I knew it was the wrong product for most people


Your rantings prove you don't understand how CV life insurance works.

"Since M&E charges are going up every year, and if investment performance within the VUL does poorly, all I have to do is OVERFUND the policy to keep it alive."

You need to learn a little more than what Primerica teaches you before you'll truly understand. The "overfunding" allows the insured to add more tax deferred money into their subaccount. Overfunding is not SOLELY to protect against a lapse, but more likely to grow more cash in the tax-shelter that is CV insurance.

Primericans are quick to point out the old policies that lapsed. These were poorly funded instruments. VULs are fantastic vehicles to accumulate cash, IF DONE PROPERLY. Your example of a poor market would ALSO kill a portfolio managed by a Primerican. The market is the market.

Oh and for your information, the OVERFUNDED portion of a VUL has NOTHING to do with the mortality expenses on the policy.


OVERFUND!!! You mean pay way too much for a medicore investment.

Since M&E charges are going up every year, and if investment performance within the VUL does poorly, all I have to do is OVERFUND the policy to keep it alive. Well, what a deal!! Pay extra for something that already costs too much just so it can survive. Now how *** is that??

By the way, if I invest my difference into non qualified mutual funds, say federal tax free muni bonds, I would not have a 10% penalty because it is non qualified money. Also, if I withdraw my principal from a Roth IRA, there is no penalty, since I could take out what I put in, it's already been taxed prior to going into the Roth.(VALID Points)!!

Lastly, having your life insurance and your investment separate makes sense. Let's say we have a market like we have now. Poor fund performance not only kills cash value, but could potentionally lead to my policy lapsing, leaving me with no insurance and no investment, (Unless I over pay into it of course, lol) Guess I should send my auto and home insurance extra money each for giggles too huh??

If I had an IRA account that was performing poorly, and I have a30 year level term policy and lets say my IRA goes down to $$0.000 Now I lost my investment but I still have my insurance. My IRA performance has no effect on my insurance, plus I dont have to OVerfund my term to keep it from expiring. By the way, if my house is paid off, I have no debt, my kids are grown and gone, and no one depends on my income, why do I need any type of insurance???? I dont.

OVERFUND!! that is funny and sad.


"You should have mentioned that I would have to Borrow money from the box, not just take it. And pay it back with interest, Wow, what a deal."

You do NOT have to pay it back. There is interest on the loan, like any other loan. If you touched your "invest the difference" money, you'd be paying taxes and possibly a 10% penalty. Sounds like permanent insurance is better.

"By the the way, if I were to die while the loan was out, my benefit to my family would be reduced equal to the loan.OOPs!!"

If you were to die with money borrowed from ANYWHERE, your estate would owe the money, whether it be from a bank or your insurer. INVALID POINT!

"Not good right now to have your insurance dependent on good market performance."

I guess it's not a good thing to have your "invest the difference" money in the market either? INVALID POINT

"Let's say I "borrow from the box", my investment portion does poorly, like nit would be now, my costs are going up each year(M&E) and I pay the same premium even though costs go up and performance goes down. I now have a loan out against my policy, and my cash goes down and policy lapse.OOPS,"

This certainly could happen with an underfunded VUL, however most clients using this understand from the start that they need to overfund the VUL to insure this doesn't happen. The underlying investments need to be allocated properly depending upon the client's risk. INVALID POINT


I've had a universal life insurance policy for 20 years now, and I bought it because it was sold to me as my retirement plan. I have been paying 3000 dollars per year for the past 20 years.

My cash part has been dropping fast, especially lately. What's going on???

My agent says I need to pour new money into the policy to rebuild cash value. So much for my retirement fund


Great story, but a few important facts left out of course. Let's go back to the ability to "get a loan from the box example" You should have mentioned that I would have to Borrow money from the box, not just take it.

And pay it back with interest, Wow, what a deal. Borrow money from myself and pay it back with interest attached. Sounds like a "loan to me". By the the way, if I were to die while the loan was out, my benefit to my family would be reduced equal to the loan.OOPs!!

Not to mention, in most cases, my family does not even get the money in the box upon my death anyway, unless of course I had a policy that costs double or triple(VUL option B or 2) and then my insurance is directly affected by investment performance. Not good right now to have your insurance dependent on good market performance. Which brings me to the most important part of your box story. You said tax free penalty free money from the box huh???

Interesting, I'm sure the IRS and FINRA would love this one. Let's say I "borrow from the box", my investment portion does poorly, like nit would be now, my costs are going up each year(M&E) and I pay the same premium even though costs go up and performance goes down.

I now have a loan out against my policy, and my cash goes down and policy lapse.OOPS, I now owe tax on the money I borrowed unless of course I send in thousands of dollars plus interest too"keep the box alive". Nice story, but be sure to include all facts next time.


I would think the Primericans would have something to say. Apparently not.

I'm willing to bet they've never heard permanent insurance explained this way. Maybe this is an eye-opener for most of them.

I'm sure one smarty pants will soon be back with some wrong information they got from their Recruiting Vice President.